"You are tenacious. I love a woman who won't give up." William Luse 6/1/04
"Kudos also to Elena, who proved that she can take it as well as she can dish it." TSO 6/4/04
"the wonderful Elena" Nathan Nelson 8/1/04
"Elena, I quake at the sound of your name" John B-Catholic Packer Fan 8-12-04
"I like your writing and your spunk." Todd Flowerday, Catholic Sensibility 11-8-04
"Elena is is so many shades of stupid they don't make a Crayola box big enough to begin coloring her" Anonymous TWA blog 2/05
"Well, Elena cuts to the chase. Says it like it is and doesn't mince her words." Alexa of Domestic Excellence
"Elena, a woman I have little in common with but have come to be fond of" Cecily Kellog 9/15/05
"I work nonstop to help people with stupidly limited perspectives, like you, accept this reality. Even when it’s hopeless, like in your case. You live in a fantasy. I can’t help you" Also Cecily Kellog 07/2020
"Your witness is horrendous" JCecil of Liberal Catholic News
"Truth, love, charity, and, oh yeah, sensitivity, decorum, good taste and a dollop of wit. That's more like it. Keep rockin'!" PMC 12/05
"I've also been reading this blog for some time and just noticed I hadn't added you to my favorite blogs. Done!" The Mighty Barrister 5/21/04
"Now go haul your huge, sagging, obese, smelly old body out of the chair and take care of those kids of yours before I call CPS and have them do an inspection and see what you're really up to when you're supposed to be homeschooling them." NMH 2006
"That you are one narcissistic, bizaare individual." Jill Filipovic on Feministe Blog September 2006
"I could certainly continue to go back and forth (and believe me, I would love to!!!!!), but that would be answering a fool according to his folly." Amy-anti-Catholic blogger at Blessed Motherhood 7/07/07!
"Where's Elena? We need Elena." Kathryn the Daring Young Mom 2/17/06
"I have no problem with Elena. I find her answers to be quite lucid, witty, and insightful." David B commenting on In Today's News 10/29/05
"She's not cranky, she just senses happiness and snuffs it out." Gabe, age 9, after being scolded for not being ready for swim practice. 12/0
"you are one narcissistic, bizaare, individual." Jill Filipovic 9/11/2006
"Elena of My Domestic Church get’s my nomination for living a life of loveliness that I could only ever dream of. She’s an awesome wife and mother, a deeply committed Catholic, a proponent of pro-life issues, a hands on make-and-bake-and-cut-and-stick-musical-momma, a prayerful, compassionate, thoughtful and passionate woman who endeavours to live a christocentric life in her own euphonious way. Yes, I am proud to know her as a blog buddy and sharing in her trials and her triumphs via reading her blog over the last few years has impacted me more than she could know… and always for the better." Deb from Ukok's Place 08/2007
"I have a feeling elena never moves on from anything. other than the couch to the fridge." 08/2007 commenter on the now defunct Rock Star Mommy Blog.
"I think you're a shrew." Anne Basso 7/08
"Even with our differences, I will say one thing--she's smart. I may not always agree with what she says, but she doesn't spout unsupported garbage as fact." Ruthjoec aka JAnn from AOL Catholic message boards and This That and the Other Thing Blog
"I was wrong. You were right. God bless you" T from LO2W blog 3/6/2008
"As a Catholic Mother myself, I enjoy reading My Domestic Church. It's one of the many blogs that I follow and read regularly. It's refreshing to read comments from a mother that shares your views. So much of what Elena has me nodding my head in agreement. I'm sure that any Catholic-Mother will enjoy reading Elena's blog." SAMinIL on Blog Catalog 9/09
"Because of my interest in Benedictine spirituality and monasticism, began reading about the Domestic Church. This site is an excellent resource. Like any good family it is alive with energy and the Holy Spirit." John on Blog Catalog 12/08
"I watched your talk on YouTube and thought you and your husband did a wonderful job. Very natural, not stilted. Your account of your child, Raphael's, life and death were extremely touching and profound." Eileen via e-mail 02/21/2010
"Happy Easter to you Elena! Four years ago I discovered Candy. Two years ago I discovered you. Last night (Easter Vigil) I was received into full communion with the Catholic Church. It was a beautiful night and one I will remember forever. Thanks to you and Kelly for clearing up any confusion there may be about what the Church believes, teaches, and proclaims. Have a blessed Easter season!" From a VTC reader. 05/2010
"Elena, You completely 'foul up' the catechism. I repeat you are a nice lady, but your lack of education and knowledge, as your distorted answers show," Jack from Liberal Catholic Sports Music 1/9/2009
"you repeatedly impress me. I know we have very different political views that show up in our comments to each other at times, but I have never once felt anything but generosity from you toward who I am." JB via e-mail 7/23/2010
"The post I really love, though is 28 Things I Learned About Marriage in 28 Years at My Domestic Church. In fact, it's so good I plan to show it on the first day of class for my Family and Society course this." Sister Edith at Monastic Musings
Elena was animated, enthusiastic, faith shined through! She was very real. For us, she was relatable and so honest and open. She motivated us the most and we are thankful that she shared so much of her personal life to show example. some PreCana evals from 2014
"you never cease to amaze me, and everyone else! You are unbelievably unforgettably wow! I'm so blessed to be your cousin and friend. Dan - My domestic cousin 5/2014
"Elena: A flute could never sound or feel so etherial as when you play." Marissa
"Your comments are continually provoking, idiotic and condescending" my nephew 11/2018
" As a mom of littles, I really appreciate moms like you tackling these tough issues and sharing your wisdom!" Laura commenting on Catholicmom 06/2019
"Thanks so much for a thoughtful article faithful to the teachings of our faith, while being compassionate towards gay people."Tim commenting on Catholicmom dot com 06/2019
"Grandma, snuggle me!" - My domestic granddaughter 2017
"When Elena turns the other cheek, it's so she can whip around the other side with full force!" Mr. Pete My Domestic Husband!
You made my point for me. Deuteronomy states what is expected of a brother-in-law. Onan married his sister-in-law, but failed to perform the second part of his duty, which was to provide her with a son to carry on her husband’s line. The sin was disobedience done through the use of the WD method. I think a case can be made through Catholic doctrine and ethics against WD, but not with Onan as a proof text.
This idea that Onan’s sin begins and ends with his use of WD as birth control misses the deeper point of how we are to love, honor, and care for one another as God intended. I refuse to be robbed of the deeper meaning in an effort to further an agenda which does not need Onan to make it’s case.
Ann did you even read the link? let alone the part I highlighted?
Claims that Onan was slain by God simply for his violation of the law of the Levirate are not sustained by the text itself and are further disproved by the text of Deuteronomy 25: 5-10.
John Kippley’s article spells it out in great detail. You should take the time to read it. For that matter all of the other links I provided with other bible scholars on the issue are also well worth the read.
The modern interpretation of this passage is post “spirit of vatican II” crapola as far as I’m concerned. It doesn’t stand up under scrutiny and it makes no sense in the context of the passage, let alone the rest of the biblical examples of the broken Leverite law.
If you have an issue with the article you can take it up with John Kippley himself. He left a link to his blog. That would be an interesting discussion.
While your at it Anne, you can take your gripe to Pope Pius and St. Augustine as well.
55. Small wonder, therefore, if Holy Writ bears witness that the Divine Majesty regards with greatest detestation this horrible crime and at times has punished it with death. As St. Augustine notes, “Intercourse even with one’s legitimate wife is unlawful and wicked where the conception of the offspring is prevented. Onan, the son of Juda, did this and the Lord killed him for it.”[45]
Casti Connubii 55Connubii 55
Elena, I did read the link, but think that you’re failing to miss my point. It wasn’t just that he wasn’t following the law, it was that by not following the law he was humiliating his sister-in-law, refusing her the child who would receive an inheritance and provide for her in her old age. The sin of Onan goes deeper than spilling his seed, or just not following the law. His act was deeply hurtful. But the spilling of the seed was the means he used to sin, and only a part of the sin itself.
Reading another interpretation of Onan’s sin is interesting, but does not automatically mean that I will change my mind. And I do believe that disagreement is allowed on such matters within the church.
I think a very good case against birth control can be made, and I even think that Onan is a good example of how birth control can be used as a way to hurt one another. But I still say that to only see the birth control issue is to limit the text, when the sin that Onan committed was so much deeper than just WD birth control.
Somehow, I think St. Augustine and the Pope probably knew that also.
BTW, your quote doesn’t disagree with what I’ve stated. The Lord did kill Onan for preventing his sister-in-law from conceiving. The question you seem to be failing to ask yourself is why? I maintain that it is because of the reasons I mentioned previously. That is where the sin is. Just my opinion, of course.
Elena, I did read the link, but think that you’re failing to miss my point. It wasn’t just that he wasn’t following the law, it was that by not following the law he was humiliating his sister-in-law, refusing her the child who would receive an inheritance and provide for her in her old age. The sin of Onan goes deeper than spilling his seed, or just not following the law. His act was deeply hurtful.
I get it Anne. The point you don’t seem to understand is that the penalty for not following the Leverite law was to have your sandal pulled off and being spit at. If Onan had lived, Tamar would have had the opportunity to accuse him, and then humiliate him in this very public way. There are other examples of men who have broken the Leverite law. They were not killed. They did not die. THAT is what makes Onan so significant.
But the spilling of the seed was the means he used to sin, and only a part of the sin itself.
Only part, but the main part. Again Anne, you’re entitled to your opinion. But it differs from some of the great thinkers in the church including St. Augustine. Yours is a contemporary interpretation.
Reading another interpretation of Onan’s sin is interesting, but does not automatically mean that I will change my mind.
Whether or not YOU change your mind is frankly irrelevant. Changing Anne Basso’s mind isn’t even the point of the post! Rather
1. Which interpretation is more accurate? (the traditional one) and
2. Can the traditional interpretation be critically defended. (Yes!)
That was the point.
And I do believe that disagreement is allowed on such matters within the church.
LOL!!! You think every item you disagree with is “allowed ” by the church.
The church has long interpreted that the sin of Onan was contraception. That is simply a fact.
I think a very good case against birth control can be made, and I even think that Onan is a good example of how birth control can be used as a way to hurt one another. But I still say that to only see the birth control issue is to limit the text, when the sin that Onan committed was so much deeper than just WD birth control.
Somehow, I think St. Augustine and the Pope probably knew that also.
Anne, I’m not even arguing that there weren’t other issues at play here. That’s the strawman you seem to want to play with. I’m simply stating that contraception is a serious sin, and the church can back that with scripture. Onan is one of the scriptures. The one part of the sin that Augustine and Pious pointed to was the sin of contraception.
I get it Anne. The point you don’t seem to understand is that the penalty for not following the Leverite law was to have your sandal pulled off and being spit at. If Onan had lived, Tamar would have had the opportunity to accuse him, and then humiliate him in this very public way. There are other examples of men who have broken the Leverite law. They were not killed. They did not die. THAT is what makes Onan so significant.
But, Elena, he had already married his sister-in-law, thus fulfilling what she could accuse him for. There was nothing in the law that said that she could go to them and say that he was using WD. Perhaps that’s why the Lord took such drastic action.
Whether or not YOU change your mind is frankly irrelevant. Changing Anne Basso’s mind isn’t even the point of the post!
*sigh* I never said it was, Elena. I was responding to your question about whether or not I’d read the link. Yes, I did, but it didn’t change my mind that there is a broader sin being commited by Onan through WD rather than the sin being only his WD.
LOL!!! You think every item you disagree with is “allowed ” by the church.
How would you know? But, yes, I think it’s pretty clear that people are allowed to disagree on things within the church. What would the Church be if we were all just mindless automatons being spoon fed theology? My ability to question, reason, and discuss was not washed away with the waters of baptism, and I firmly believe that such discussion, thought, and questioning ultimately serves to deepen our understanding and our faith. Again, just my opinion.
Anne, I’m not even arguing that there weren’t other issues at play here. That’s the strawman you seem to want to play with. I’m simply stating that contraception is a serious sin, and the church can back that with scripture. Onan is one of the scriptures. The one part of the sin that Augustine and Pious pointed to was the sin of contraception.
And that’s great. I’ll go along with the idea that the use of contraception by Onan was a grievous sin. But because of the deeper issues. I think it plays into the birth control issue, but is not, in and of itself, a proof text against artificial birth control, nor do we as Catholics need it to be.
And, for the record, I’m still an NFP using Catholic expecting another baby in January. I certainly haven’t been limiting my family size. I simply object to the overly narrow use of the text. Especially since it is this view that leads people into using it as an argument against Natural Family Planning which is endorsed by the RCC.
nor do we as Catholics need it to be.
which no doubt is why Pope Pius thought it necessary to put it into his encyclical.